49 Responses for "폭탄영어 #16 - Mad about Mad Cow!"

1. More Mad Cow Fodder | The Marmot's Hole June 3rd, 2008 at 1:14 am 1

   [...] that mixes the Korean drive to learn English with the need to get a different POV out there) is on its 16th episode and is straight-talking about the politics of the crazy [...]

2. J. Hwang June 3rd, 2008 at 3:10 am 2

   Mooooooooooooo~
   Good job, guys~!

   Michael, let me share the ‘crippy disgusting gory videos’ that you collected.

   Jennifer, what you said about being the first person who will die of mad cow disease, if any, was what exactly I told my students a couple of weeks ago in my class. But I am not sure if they believed me or not.

3. martin June 3rd, 2008 at 5:01 am 3

   Guys, thanks for that! You did really good job. Btw. you were right with the yellow press:

   Pulitzer introduced the first comic strip, The Yellow Kid, drawn by Richard Outcault. The character became immensely popular and inspired the name for the sensationalist press of the era.

   I should post source too: ;-]
   http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h819.html

4. Jennifer June 3rd, 2008 at 9:16 am 4

   Just a note: if you want us to contact you directly for any reason, you don’t need to put your email in the body of the text. As admins and moderators for the site, we have access to it, and it keeps your email safe(r) from spam.

5. Left Flank June 3rd, 2008 at 9:30 am 5

   Bovine-Related Madness in Media…

   Bomb English gets down to the holes in the mad cow tempest engulfing ROK (well, just Gotham Seoul). Michael and Jennifer cover a lot of material, a true resource for ESL teachers and Americans who might be feeling retaliatory about Seoulites’ obsessio…

6. John Goranson June 3rd, 2008 at 10:07 am 6

   Hi Guys,

   Thanks for the good learning material. It was very interesting, which–as you know–is most important… and it’s free, too! Thank you!

   Here’s how you could improve, though: 1) The transcript has a lot of mistakes (the punctuation is usually incorrect, and there are lots of incorrect words and expressions). 2) Why talk about Ohno or other issues in the middle of a discussion about beef? What you said about Ohno and George Bush, etc., are interesting points, but they’re not directly related to a discussion about Mad Cow. 3) On one hand you say you’re not “overly” patriotic Americans, and on the other hand you ignore all the arguments against American beef then end by saying how much you look forward to eating juicy, delicious American beef. Meanwhile you say Koreans ought to examine evidence and arguments, and think critically. Sure, you’re thinking critically–about the Korean media and public opinion–but you’re certainly not examining the evidence. There was absolutely no mention of evidence for or against American beef.

   Thanks for the FREE podcast and script, though! Obviously you put some effort into it, and that’s commendable.

7. Jennifer June 3rd, 2008 at 11:09 am 7

   We do the best we can with transcription, but it’s an incredibly difficult process that takes a great deal of time and effort. Usually we try to go through another one or two edits after it’s first transcribed, but sometimes it just doesn’t happen before we post the episode. You’ll notice that oftentimes we go back and re-edit the transcript a few days later. Also, because it is a transcription of an unscripted show, the words and punctuation reflect what we actually said, not the perfect and grammatical version of what we should have said.
   As far as mentioning Ohno and Bush . . . well, from my perspective they are in fact related. Korean nationalist feeling is driving a lot of the protests, not rational responses to a real danger. Likewise, the response here in South Korea to Ohno’s win was really irrational and focused on the wrong things (from my perspective, at least!) and tied in much more to feelings of anti-Americanism than any real and legitimate gripe with the ruling in the rink.
   In our original recording of the show, we actually DID spend a lot of time going point by point over factual errors that were being reported and in trying to evaluate competing claims and evidence. However, we found that it just didn’t work very well. And in the end, it sounded very negative because . . .well, the arguments against the imports of American beef being used in South Korea at the moment just aren’t very good. Michael and Yunji and I were having a good debate, but it didn’t make for a very good podcast, which is why we re-did it, and focused on the issue in a different way. There’s lots of sites giving evidence, but we needed to do things in a way that worked for the show.
   And yes, I am still looking forward to that big, juicy hamburger. And I’m pretty sure it won’t make me any crazier than I already am. Thanks for the comments and suggestions!

8. Michael June 3rd, 2008 at 2:41 pm 8

   I concur with the approach — we tried a “debunking” show, and it didn’t work, so we decided to scrap that recording. The only thing we saved was the cheeky frying of American beef, which I like to think was pretty funny.

   But the show came off as strident, as us being too much on the US “side,” as us just making a point to prove the Koreans wrong. However, what we’d wanted to talk about was our point of view — yes, Jennifer and I do think this is all a bunch of hubbub about nada — but by speaking to the core issues, which seem to be about citizens’ faith in government, the rule of law, lack of critical thinking/media literacy skills, etc.

   We wanted to leave the majority of the gory details out, without getting bogged down in trying to be “experts” (which we’re not), not to mention that such a debate would also tend to make the show seem far too dated as events and issues unfold.

   To me, at least, more important than 30 months here or new April 2009 feed regulations there, I thought the basic issues were was those of trust and logic. So any issues we mentioned were just examples that spoke to that, rather than a disquisition on a whole bunch of topics in a discussion that would eventually evolve into something more than our lay training would allow for, which is where a REAL talking head should come in.

   It’s out of respect for the subject and our listeners that we actually backed off a bit.

9. Jim June 3rd, 2008 at 3:37 pm 9

   What I miss is the American style cutting of the meat. With my limited Korean I do have the ability to go and get a nice steak at a butcher, I believe what I’m getting with my limited steak literacy is what is known as a delmonico steak, that is a steak cut from the loin of a prime rib, in Korean perhaps it is 안심. (please correct me if I’m wrong.) I don’t know where to find something like a t-bone or porterhouse though. Anyway I liked the show, I’d have to second the thing about teachers having much more of a pulpit here. I was thinking about that just the other day.

   I was teaching an English class with a Korean co-teacher, and the topic of 광우병 came up. My co-teacher, an E Myung Bak supporter went on a bit of a tirade in Korean about how No Moo Hyun created the situation. (That’s what I gathered I can’t speak Korean well.) At anyrate her actions didn’t seem responsible, but no where near anything you mentioned in the pod cast. Anyway thank you, I will go off to google cuts of meat in Korean and English so I can better my grilling for this summer!!!

10. Junho (Chris) June 3rd, 2008 at 4:47 pm 10

    Finally I’ve found some people that talks about this mad cow issue with some common sense! Im an Aussie born Korean who (i think) got alil bit of both nations. I can definitely do some critical thinking for myself whilst understanding why most of the korean people tend to believe things in the media so easily. If Korea had an FTA with Aus for beef then would the same thing have happened?? I believe not…definitely the the main cause of this negative POVs about American beef would be because its AMERICAN. Thanks guys for being abit more “smarter” than the general population.

11. Dok In June 3rd, 2008 at 5:40 pm 11

    Hi, honestly I really don’t know if this would be off topic or not.. but from what I can gather.. The so called anti US meat imports demonstrations have become alot bigger than what it started off as…. I wouldn’t be able to explain why the people are reacting in such an EXTREME way.. alot of people say in what I can describe as a lemming mentality.. and I must admit this is definitely true.. but my point is.. regardless of the reason.. the fact of the matter is.. these demonstrations are becoming more and more violent.. I feel that it’s only a matter of time until something really serious happens.. example.. a kid dying.. the reaction of the “mob” will be furious.. and I am truly concerned about this turning into a riot… would i be over reacting.. I hope so^^.. I pray that I’m wrong.. but looking at all the UCC footage… it got me thinking.. “man.. this is really not about the US beef imports anymore…” (on which I totally think the we S.Ks are over reacting..)

12. Michael June 3rd, 2008 at 9:22 pm 12

    Here’s an appropriate comment we received:

    “You stupid yankee english teachers have never had it soooooo good as in Korea. You expect to be treated like god. You should not critize korea or disguss things that you clearly know nothing about.

    If you love yankee beef so much, go back to burgerflipper job and leave beatuiful Korea to beatuiful koreans. DO NOT SPOIL OUR NATION. GET OUT.”

    We won’t tolerate or publish such comments, so don’t bother writing them. This an example for future reference. And remember, we keep IP addresses and report abuse.

    IP: 125.14.15.94 , 125-14-15-94.rev.home.ne.jp

13. saera hong June 4th, 2008 at 12:01 am 13

    I’ve eated US beef for 18+ years, I am Korean, and I am not dead. yay?

    But Koreans are willing to believe whatever they hear or see regardless of its veracity. This is partly due to the fact that Koreans are not taught critical thinking (as you mentioned), but rather to just assume that everything that you hear or read about is correct.

    These protests are ridiculous. The large majority of the population, and those who are protesting, don’t understand what’s actually going on.

14. Mark June 4th, 2008 at 9:23 am 14

    Great podcast fisking of Korean social issues in general, and I’d like to second J. Hwang…could I please have some of your traffic accident videos/pictures?

    Thanks.

15. Kinsey June 4th, 2008 at 12:35 pm 15

    I don’t know much about South Korea. (The little I do know comes from watching Jin and Sun flashbacks on Lost.) But I’m struck by all the mentions of anti-American sentiment over there. Is this just part the standard worldwide reaction to Bush and his murderous antics, or does Korea have other historical reasons for being anti-US?

    For transcripts, you might want to look into Pods in Print:

    http://www.podsinprint.com/

    If they like your cast, and you give them permission, they’ll write up the transcripts for you. The catch is that only paid subscribers to their service will be able to access them. In other words, they’d no longer be free for your listeners. (Actually, on second thought, maybe it’s not such a good idea.)

16. kimyoungho June 4th, 2008 at 12:46 pm 16

    hello.
    I’m youngho Kim and I’m a university student in Korea.
    I found some ridiculous things, while I was reading this script. So I will tell you about my opinion of this theme as simply as possible. Because I can’t speak English well,,

    First of all,
    I totally agree with both of you(Jenniffer and Michael) about media and education in Korea. And about teenage protesters, too.

    But do you know that American government are trying to export some kind of beef which Americans don’t consume at all? This beef is called ‘over 30months beef’. And in America, selling ‘over 30months beef’ is illegal. This kind of beef exportation is just good for America. Because American farm industries can earn big money from their trash.

    Besides, Virus which are related with Mad cow disease are just in the cow’s brain or spinal cord things. And in America, nobody consume these kinds of part. (They just eat T-BONE steak) In the other hand, Korean people tend to enjoy eating the every organs and bones from cows. These are the reason why Korean people are worrying a lot about importing these kind of beefs from America.

    Of course, there are serious faults of korean government, something like police’s violent reactions against protestors,(because korean have belived that this kind of violent reaction of police was disappeared eversince the eighties. Besides, mad cow protestors have tried to be calm and peaceful. Most of people who protest are participating in protest personally to talk with gorvernment as citizen. this is very big different point with past protests. ) and there is also president’s suspect of curruptions.

    So, Emotionalism or Nationalism are not reasons why Korean people are protesting now.

    I understand both of you(Jenniffer and michael). Because I know that you are teachers. You might meet a lot of teenage students. I think most of teenage people who are interested in mad cow disease protest are ignorant of current affairs and deep political views. But I think you misunderstood about essential reasons why this protest was happened and which side of political tendency protesters have.

    If you can read Korean, I would like to recommend you to read neutral newspapers. Chosunilbo(which you’ve mentioned in script) is the most right-wing newspaper.
    Read Sisa-in or Hangyure. It will help you to keep your balanced point of view.

17. Jennifer June 4th, 2008 at 4:03 pm 17

    Youngho,
    I think your English is really good! But a few comments and corrections:
    I’m not a teacher. I’m a researcher in Korean Studies at a major university here in Seoul. Michael is a photographer. I know the perception is that all foreigners here are English teachers, but it’s not true in our case.
    Koreans will NOT be receiving beef that Americans don’t eat. It’s just not true. There is NO difference in the meat that Koreans and Americans will be consuming except in the final packaging for long haul transportation. There is no special place where old, sick cows are slaughtered just to be sent off to Korea, ok? It’s just not logical if you think about it.
    And where do you get the idea we only eat T-bone steak???
    In the end, though, it doesn’t matter what kind of beef is being imported. The great preponderance of evidence scientific and otherwise says that American beef is safe from BSE. There is NO reason to protest American beef from this standpoint. If you don’t believe me, . . .well, that’s why I provided a list of many different sources with many different viewpoints in this post.
    Are the protests nationalistic and emotional? Well, if you’re ignoring science and logic as motivations,what other conclusion can we come to?
    There’s been some violence on BOTH sides of the protest. Whichever side is doing it, it’s not cool.
    Both Michael and I read from a variety of sources. The Hankyore isn’t any less biased than the Chosun; it’s just biased in a different direction. I don’t believe anything just because it comes from the 조선, 중앙, 동아일보, 시사인, 한겨레, CNN, BBC or any other news source. That’s where the critical thinking comes in. The trick is to get your news from a variety of sources, and evaluate them.

18. Jennifer June 4th, 2008 at 4:09 pm 18

    P.S. Ok, this is a minor detail, but it is driving me insane. My name is “Jennifer”. That’s Jennifer with TWO “n”s and ONE “f” Ok?

19. Michael June 4th, 2008 at 4:15 pm 19

    Yes, I second what Jennifer has to say:

    1) Hangyeoreh isn’t “non-biased” in any sense. I don’t even think many Koreans believe that — it’s generally seen as a newspaper that’s left of center. In fact, that’s why it was founded in the first place, right? To counter the dominance of right-wing or establishment journalism.

    2) The assertion that Americans will be eating safe, higher-quality beef, while Koreans will be shipped something else that Americans don’t eat — simply NOT TRUE. It’s not a matter of bias — this is simply a non-truth. I don’t know where this myth is coming from. I’d like to see the concrete evidence (not just “it was said in the paper”) that Korea is getting beef no Americans eat. This is a myth that seems to have been generated and recycled amongst Koreans themselves.

    3) The mad cow transmitter isn’t a “virus.” That’s a fundamental misconception. It’s a prion, and scientists still don’t fully understand how they work, nor do they fully understand CJD.

    I don’t think any part of the show was “ridiculous”, even if you didn’t agree with part of it. I think our claims were fair, and we made sure to research them, and we came to a conclusion.

20. howtoplayalone June 4th, 2008 at 10:05 pm 20

    I loved the show! I just found out about it while looking for mad cow stuff. I plan on recommending it to some of my students as well.

    I’ve been reading a lot of blog posts and newspaper articles that claim this or that about mad cow and the FTA, and other blogs that deny them, usually in mocking tones (I’m not talking about you guys). I’d like to mock them too, but I don’t feel like I should without better info and sources, lest I come off as lacking in evidence as them.

    What would be awesome would be for someone who knows a lot about it, or who has been keeping track, or for various people to pool some info, and to write a post (or a letter to some paper) with links (some of which you guys have supplied), but also maybe a description and quotes from those sources so we know what’s in each one, and don’t have to read the whole thing or search the whole site: Some of those sources are long, and few of us will weed through that stuff.

    When someone plays the “30 month” card, I’d like to be able to respond with facts and sources, not just “that’s not true.” (I think in this case that’s a negative that can be proven.) It would be nice to have a go-to debunking place with all the info neatly bundled up in packages with little ribbons.

    I’m not trying to get you guys to do it, rather just to suggest it. I’d be happy to contribute, send me an email… But this sounds like a job for Michael Shermer.

    Also, I understand why you guys didn’t put up that “debunking” one, but I’d like to hear it and it sounds more like what I’m after.

    And I prefer Hankyurae, but it’s about (or less, actually) as fair and balanced as fox news. I generally like their politics, but I can’t believe some of the crap I read in there. One of my students told me they should only let kids read the Hankyuhrae, because the Dong-ah Ilbo might give them some bad info. What she meant was it might make them doubt…

21. howtoplayalone June 4th, 2008 at 10:11 pm 21

    And Kinsey, don’t trust Lost. There are not quaint little Chinese-looking bridges everywhere in Korea.

22. Ancient Goose June 4th, 2008 at 11:31 pm 22

    Hi Jennifer and Michael~
    Actually, I usually enjoy eating American beef just like you.
    (You probably know where I am working…:) )
    I had steak as my dinner an hour ago and it’s still so delicious to me.

    By the way, um…, It’s true that there’s yellow journalism, nationalism, anti-American sentiment and distorted emotional anger in our society.
    And also many times I witness that there’s little critical, logical, scientific thinking skills of the general public in our daily living .

    Moreover, as you discussed in your pod cast, Korean educational environment is far behind in teaching those critical, logical and scientific thinking skills to almost all of the elementary school children compared to other western school system. But there’s some cultural differences any way.

    For me, I learn critical reading, critical thinking, debating, rebuttal skills etc. in my college years for the first time of my life from a foreign professor.

    Well, no objection to your POV, except some… anyhow.

    BTW, let’s shift gear a little bit.

    Two things I want to say.

    First, have you ever thought of ‘FEAR’?
    Fear, as you see, is a sort of abstract terminology and it simply seems not very scientific, rather it’s somewhat subjective and emotional one to describe the current issue.
    However, it is something actually effective and perhaps the direct reason behind why Koreans are so furious about the possibility of prion’s existence and CJD in American beef even though it’s something very far from what is being discussed and pointed as illogical reaction and unreasonable phenomenon of Korean society in your pod cast.
    Well, sometimes it can be a matter of personal concerns; sometimes it also can be collective mental reaction within a certain community.
    The thing is, ‘what has been done to get rid of these ‘fear’ that Korean have as an expected consumer of US beef by the two government both in a national and a business level?’

    It’s somewhat regrettable for me to see that there has been a lack of making PR aggressively on the safety issue of American beef more scientifically and logically much earlier. (Both US and ROK, and the majority of local media are not able to be free from being blamed. Cause they are, apart from FTA, representing their folks like providers and consumers in the global market and without sincerity and confidence, there’s no trade no where actually.)

    Anyhow, here goes the thing; it’s an issue of what we eat. (So what?) A very unscientific, personal, local and delicate hint of mine to you.
    As you said, the number of American people who has CJD, or died from CJD after having US beef is Zero~. (Although the lady in her 20s’ case is under investigation)
    - Right.
    Moreover, no existing scientist has concluded that prion is directly connected to CJD.
    - Definitely.

    However, all this fusses over CJD, prion and mad cows are not yet concluded as scientifically interconnected, suggesting that it is an issue of ‘PRESENT CONTINUOUS’, on which one can say like, “it’s perfectly safe since there’s no negative scientific evidence”, or “it’s safe, SO FAR”

    Or more figuratively,

    “No negative scientific reason/evidence = the ‘item’ is safe” (T)

    But,

    “The ‘item’ is safe so far from my own eating history and the public’s known experiences (with rational statistical evidence showing zero probability of getting the disease” = “the ‘item’ will sure to be safe” (??) (no one can TELL this as ‘T’ nor ’F’ and criticize this; it’s not a matter of convincing one’s beliefs (although you’ve shown it as assurance) to others, rather it’s a matter of persuasion with sincerity and care plus concern with sufficient logical argument and scientific evidence )

    The thing is here.

    “The fear of edible ‘items’ ” not only to Koreans, perhaps to all of the expected importers like neighboring countries: Japan and Taiwan.

    Perhaps this is why Japan and Taiwan are chewing the cud (probably, Japan’s case with conditions stricter than Korea’s) and are still under negotiations with US, not showing afore-mentioned illogical, unscientific, perhaps emotionally and nationally sentimental reasons-FEAR.

    Um, the Second is…
    There were actually not many anti American slogans. If anything, I don’t think average Korean folk prepared it. Lots of slogans were toward the Government.

    from
    Always a Big fan of Michael and Jennifer.

    p.s. I don’t agree with the way of people making clogged Jongro, either.

23. Thorn June 5th, 2008 at 3:11 am 23

    This messege is for youngho

    Your are waaaay misguided in your comments.

    It is not illegal to sell beef processed from cattle older than 30 months old (OTM) in the US. Where you got this…I don’t know…maybe some ignoramous that doesn’t follow English so well got the UK confused with the US because there, “in the UK” it is generally considered illegal to sell beef from OTM cattle for human consumption. (check out the Food Standards Agency, not the USDA) The mass of US beef consumed is between 18-24 months, however much lower quality types of meet like ground beef, sausage, and hot dogs use beef from 30 months plus. Call the USDA, FSIS division and ask if you don’t believe me and they’ll glady provide you with some “factual” data in writing (001-1-888-674-6854).

    Felines (cats) are the only “domistic” pets known to be succeptible to contracting a variant of BSE, btw. Not lil ‘ol 차차 the shitsu. Cattle over 30 months of age are processed to be used in animal feed and pet food so long as they have been inspected and/or have had their brains, spinal cords, and other SRM removed. (see Federal Register 2008, part VI, courtesy of the FDA)

    ps, keep up the great work Michael and JeNNiFer ^,~

24. kimyoungho June 5th, 2008 at 3:18 am 24

    I’m sorry jeniffer.
    From now on, I can remember your name exactly, and I’m your new fan.
    Thank you for your comment about my opinion.

    But I want to add some sentences to my previous comment.
    ” this protest is becoming more complicated. Now, it is not just about beef importing things, althoght this was started from beef importation.”

    And lastly, I’m sorry Micael. I did a funny mistake in your blog. I didn’t know that blog is yours.

25. Thorn June 5th, 2008 at 3:30 am 25

    sorry youngho…I just realized you didn’t make the comment about OTM parts being prohibited in use for pet food. Someone else, somewhere else put that in my head. Regardless, it’s been said before so be rest assured the puppies of this land are safe! from BSE, at least…

26. Ty June 5th, 2008 at 5:40 am 26

    Hi Jennifer and Michel!

    I’m a great fan of your PodCast. I really appreciate all your efforts to this show and your blog also.

    I’m very surprised with your great understanding of Korean and its culture in a relatively short period of time of your living in Korea. And I mostly agree with your constructive criticism in your previous episodes too.

    However, I’d like to point out some issues that I can’t agree with this episode, not as a Korean but as a rational person who has slightly different opinion in few points.

    1. I think Korean are very rational about this time. When you assess the risk, you have to consider two aspects, not only chances that it might happen but also significance of consequences. Even though the chances of you get this disease from eating beef is very very low, once you get it, fatality rate is close to 100. If it is the case it is rational for people to be worry about.

    2.And even if it is not rational, that doesn’t necessarily make this less significant. it seems like your arguments is under the assumption that decision based on reason is always likely to be more accurate than emotional decision. But I believe if this large numbers of people share bad feeling about an issue, there must be something beyond our reason(six-sense or whatever it is called). Emotional is not a synonym of irrational. collateral intelligence is often greater than small group of experts!

    3.It doesn’t seem to be proper that you blame protesters because they occupy the street illegally. It might be inconvenient to other people who don’t agree with the issue. But you can’t disagree with the great roles this public protest demonstration played to achieve the progress of human rights and freedom. Sometimes we have to bear little inconvenience for the greater good.

    4.In this modern world,especially if you live the urban life, you can’t choose what you eat and it’s not a matter of money. That’s a part of the reason you see so many young students in protesters. If you are student, you may have to eat whatever your cafeteria provides to you to eat.

    Thank you for reading this and I’m looking forward to your next episode!!!

27. Ty June 5th, 2008 at 5:46 am 27

    Oops! Sorry for my typo Michael!!

28. Jennifer June 5th, 2008 at 11:24 am 28

    Ah, that was one of the things that I’m sorry didn’t make it into the new podcast: We discussed how rational it is to fear mad cow. I think a lot of people are scared of mad cow because, as you say, it is 100% fatal. No known cure. And that is pretty scary. People aren’t so scared of things like salmonella poisoning because the majority of people who catch it recover. On the face of it, that seems to make CJD MUCH more dangerous, but really it’s not a danger at all, especially by comparison. Even if salmonella poisoning only kills 20% of people who contract it, thousands of people catch it every year here in Korea. 20% of 1000 is 200 people. Now if we look at America and CJD, the death rate is 100% but the number of people who have contracted it from US beef is . . .0! And anything multiplied by zero is zero. So there is essentially NO risk of CJD. That doesn’t make it any less scary, but it does make that fear irrational. It’s like worrying about being eaten by a giant squid if you never go in the water: An already unlikely event made impossible by condition.
    I’ll be honest: I think CJD is a scary, scary disease that I sure as hell don’t want to catch. But before people start acting in ways that don’t make sense it’s important to understand what it is, how it works, and what the chances are of getting it. I have essentially NO chance of getting it, so I don’t worry about it. So yeah, in that sense I think these overly emotional and frightened responses ARE irrational. There are so many people running around saying that they’ll die just from eating US beef. It doesn’t stand up to even the most basic investigation.
    As for the protests themselves:
    I agree that they’re not just about beef imports, and that a slew of other issues have become part of it. But let’s face it: this is NOT Gwangju in 1980. As far as I can tell LMB is not suspending free elections or turning the place into a military state. This is not the death of Korea democracy, and while I FULLY support the right of citizens to peacefully gather and protest just about anything their hearts’ desire, I am also not cool with the protests getting violent, out of control, or just plain crazy. To me, trying to set fire to vehicles and stopping traffic in the entire downtown area seems way over the line.
    People are absolutely right that the people have the right to chose. What confuses me is that this deal gives people MORE choices, not fewer. If you think you’ll get CJD from eating American beef, what’s to stop you from choosing 한우 when you get to the meat counter? Nothing! If you think that it’s a silly, illogical fear and that American beef is just as delicious and twice as cheap, then you should be free to buy and eat it.

29. jung eun // bomb english rocks // June 5th, 2008 at 5:16 pm 29

    i love your podcast, period.

    it is SOOO refreshing to hear some reasonable discussions/conversations in this mad world and also educational to someone like me (native korean, ex-pat living in states) on american ( although i think you are way above the average intelligence ) perspectives, way of thinking, cultures, etc as well as korean cultures and current affairs.

    i can’t agree more on how the media - 신문 & TV & internet news - control the minds of korean people. it is just crazy how once it is said in media, it becomes the ‘truth’.

    But the ‘politcal’ news has different angle, i think.
    When I was little, in 80s, we NEVER believed the ‘politics’ section in the media because it is all propaganda driven by (military) government.
    We thought there are ‘other, hidden, not filtered by the big brother’ truth, which I think makes sense. but then this made us not to ignore gossipy rumors. how else people would have known about 광주항쟁…
    hankyoreh took advantage of it. Since they are relatively balanced and outspokenly critical of government, what they say is true on the contrary of others.

    so 1) people give more credit when the media criticize of authority. (like your point)
    2) as the combination of democratic, namely freedom of speech and internet power come into play, information overflowed while we were still vulnerable (fyi. hard to pronounce this for korean..). trying to being healed from the wound of military government’s propaganda. So we haven’t practiced enough, and made trials and errors of this power.

    So I would def suggest you to go deeper on this issues thru your podcast or blogs. On media craziness as well as the lack of tolerance in korean society for diversity. In a way, you can be the ‘media’ that can voice the diversity.

    Well I feel the pressure of saying something about mad cow, but I am not in the position of judging this situation since I am not breathing it at the moment. I don’t have any ‘reasonable’, ‘trustworthy’ source of information gatekeeper, on the situation, I only learn about it from the media or my parents who are very strong supporters of Mr. president.
    So, you know what I mean.

    But I believe that american people are in as much danger as any foreigners because of irresponsible meat industry. I am not talking about Mad cow, but in general handling of it, and as someone indicate, the cheaper products have the lower quality beef. And I don’t expect otherwise from korean meat industry. So we should protest about food safety!!! (ok, I was sold on fast food nation..)

    Anyhow, Again, I respect your works, admire it, love it, I keep hitting “Refresh” button in my iTune, as if it would bring me another episode of yours sooner…

    And I mean, you are doing this in korea.. Koreans are super proud of being korean - as much as are americans.. Koreans love to hear foreigners saying ” I love korea.. Korea is #1… Korea rocks.. ” not saying you have to suck it up, but I am just saying it must be tough for you..

    I want to do what you do here in california.. “BOMB KOREAN” or something..
    but how would I have such a keen insights?! Or even get the audience.. Hmm.. Give me some tips…

    Cheers & love your works..

30. Tristan June 5th, 2008 at 7:20 pm 30

    Hey! I want to thank you guys for the wonderful piece you did on the mad cow scare. I agree with almost everything you guys have said. However, I just discovered a flaw in some of the arguments that I have been expounding (as well as an argument you used in your conversation). I thought, until a few moments ago, that the 3 cases of Mad Cow discovered stateside came from cows that were imported from other countries (Canada). However, it seems - from the sources you provided - that one cow was imported from Alberta and the other two BSE cases were actual home grown problems. Are there any other sources to dispute that?

31. Jennifer June 6th, 2008 at 1:21 am 31

    No, what you read is correct. All the sources I’ve found say that one cow was an import from Canada, and two others are most likely domestic cows that developed the disease spontaneously. All the cows were older animals, and none were intended for nor entered the food supply. They were believed to have the H variant form of BSE that develops spontaneously. Just as CJD in humans, BSE can show up for no explained reason. The fact that none of it entered the food supply is good news, though, and there are still no cases of anyone contracting CJD from US beef (the 20-year old reported on in PD Diary has been autopsied, and the results were negative. The only deaths from CJD in the US were all contracted outside the US.)
    Jung-eun is right, too, that there are problems with the way beef and other meat in America is farmed. I will say though that as a girl who grew up in an area where cattle and dairy farms, alpaca growing, and emu ranching were common(no, I’m not kidding there - there are TWO emu ranches on the street where my family lives), most of the farming I saw took place in pasture. Grass-fed, free roaming cattle are not as rare as “Fast Food Nation” makes out . . .

32. hochan June 6th, 2008 at 1:06 pm 32

    Hi Jennifer and Michel!
    i love your podcast and respect your sacrifice to korean people learning english.
    as one of your entusiastic fans i ‘d like to point out some arguments about your posting.
    koreans protest against incompetent LMB administration.
    they have signed contract agree with importing cows over 30 months old. it is said that
    they are more dangerous than under 20 months old.
    why should we korean only have to eat the more dangerous cows?
    if you insist on there’s no evidence for danger, can you assure 100% that they are safe?
    you say there are 0..00%, nearly zero chance to die from MAD COW.
    i’d like to say it’s very dangerous perspective. because nobody free from the rare chances
    in the long run.
    as somebody upper indicated, irresponsible meat industry & supplier add more danger to this situation.
    we are not guaranteed to choose for ourselves which origin to take.
    becauese for the money they are bound to deceive the origin.
    especially for the poor people have no choice but to take cheaper one.
    i think government’s priority on making policy should be on protecting people from any possibe danger
    even though it is little likely to happen.
    think about the reason why we should still retain the army at the expense of youth and money.
    bye~~

33. SeoulPodcast » Blog Archive » Episode 11: Starting a Family in Korea (Cathy and David Harris from SeoulLife.net) June 6th, 2008 at 2:09 pm 33

    [...] Bomb English discusses the topic [...]

34. howtoplayalone June 6th, 2008 at 3:04 pm 34

    HOCHAN: “cows over 30 months old. it is said that
    they are more dangerous than under 20 months old.
    why should we korean only have to eat the more dangerous cows?”

    This is not true. Americans eat cows over 30 months old. Where did you hear otherwise? Check your facts, don’t believe rumours.

    http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7436914.stm

35. Scott June 6th, 2008 at 10:09 pm 35

    Hochan is right. Even if there is only a very slight chance for danger, we should completely avoid it. That is why I’m going to stop eating Hanwoo (Korean) beef as well. They don’t even check them for mad cow disease and they have few standards for maintaining beef quality. We cannot be assured 100% of its safety.

    Bad Korean cows!

    I also don’t go into buildings over 1 story high anymore. No one can say 100% that I won’t trip on the stairs and break my neck, or that the elevator won’t malfunction and kill me.

    Bad buildings!

    I just wish more people in the world had common sense and reasonable thinking like this.

36. hochan June 7th, 2008 at 4:54 pm 36

    scott misunderstaood my point of view.

    i assert that we, korean government, could have stopped from importing cows over 30 months old if we had considered people’s health first.

    the fact whether the meat would be harmful or good to health is another thing. the contract shoud have been fair for korean in principle.

    we have to say to our children “to be honest” in principle, but nobody can live 100% honestly.

    what is common sense and reasonable thinking ?
    should we have to teach to the children like ” you don’t have to live in honest because society would not allow that after all.”

    i’d like to conclude saying that principle is one thing and reality is another thing.

37. Terry S. Singeltary Sr. June 8th, 2008 at 11:47 am 37

    Saturday, June 7, 2008

    Export Requirements for the Republic of Korea IMPORT HEALTH REQUIREMENTS FOR U.S. BEEF AND BEEF PRODUCTS

    http://usdavskorea.blogspot.com/2008/06/export-requirements-for-republic-of.html

    http://www.fsis.usda.gov/regulations_&_policies/Republic_of_Korea_Requirements/index.asp

    IMPORT HEALTH REQUIREMENTS FOR U.S. BEEF AND BEEF PRODUCTS

    Import Health Requirements for U.S. Beef and Beef Products

    The following import health requirements shall be applied to beef and beef products exported from the United States of America (”United States”) to the Republic of Korea (”Korea”).

    Definitions

    1. Definitions for the purpose of these health requirements are as follows:

    (1) “Beef or beef products” includes all edible parts of cattle less than 30 months of age at the time of slaughter and products derived from all edible parts of cattle less than 30 months of age at the time of slaughter as described in the U.S. Federal Meat Inspection Act. However, “beef or beef products” excludes specified risk materials (SRMs); all mechanically recovered meat (MRM)/mechanically separated meat (MSM); and advanced meat recovery product (AMR) from the skull and vertebral column of cattle 30 months of age and over at the time of slaughter. AMR that is free of SRMs and central nervous system tissues (CNS) is allowed. Ground meat, processed products and beef extracts may contain AMR but excludes specified risk materials (SRMs) and all MRM/MSM.

    (2) “BSE” means Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy.

    (3) “Cattle” means domesticated bovine animals (Bos taurus and Bos indicus) born and raised in the United States, legally imported into the United States from a country deemed eligible by the Korean government to export beef or beef products to Korea, or raised in the United States for at least 100 days prior to slaughter.
    (4) “Food-safety hazard” means any biological, chemical, or physical property that may cause food to be unsafe for human consumption.

    (5) “Lot” means a quantity of beef or beef products identified on a single export certificate from one meat establishment, and consists of the same process category and product standard of identity (sub-category).

    (6) “Meat establishment” includes any slaughterhouse, processing plant, and storage facility for beef or beef products that operates under U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) inspection.

    (7) “Non-compliance” means an inconsistency with this protocol that does not constitute a food-safety hazard.

    (8) “Serious non-compliance” means a food-safety hazard in a shipped product or a food-safety hazard found during a system audit.

    (9) “Specified risk materials” (SRMs) means: (a) tonsils and distal ileum from cattle of all ages; and (b) brain, eyes, spinal cord, skull, dorsal root ganglia (DRG) and vertebral column (excluding vertebrae of the tail, transverse processes and spinous processes of the cervical, thoracic and lumbar vertebrae, median crest and wings of the sacrum) from cattle 30 months of age and over at the time of slaughter.(10) “United States” (U.S.) means the fifty states and the District of Columbia.

    General Requirements

    2. Prior to the loading of the beef or beef products:

    (a) the United States has been free of foot-and-mouth disease for the past 12 months and has been free of rinderpest, contagious bovine pleuropneumonia, lumpy skin disease and Rift Valley fever for the past 24 months; and

    (b) Vaccination has not been carried out against the aforementioned diseases.

    Notwithstanding the above, in the event the Korean government recognizes that effective stamping-out policies ar e in place for the specific disease in the United States, including emergency vaccination if carried out, the required period for recognizing the United States as being free of that disease may be shortened in accordance with World Organization for Animal Health (OlE) guidelines after Korea conducts a risk analysis.

    3. In the event a disease set out in item 2 occurs in the United States, the U.S. government shall immediately suspend the issuance of export certificates for all beef and beef products to Korea that do not meet the requirements of item 2.

    4. The U.S. government, in accordance with U.S. regulations, continuously maintains measures that meet or exceed OlE guidelines for controlled-risk status to effectively detect and prevent the introduction and spread of BSE. The U.S. government will provide notice to the World Trade Organization (WTO) -according to its WTO commitments -and inform Korea regarding the repeal or amendment of any BSE-related measure.

    5. In the event (an) additional case(s) of BSE occur(s) in the United States, the U.S. government shall immediately conduct a thorough epidemiological investigation and inform the Korean government of the results of the investigation. The U.S. government will consult with the Korean government about the findings of the investigation. The Korean government will suspend the importation of beef and beef products if the additional case(s) results in the OlE recognizing an adverse change in the classification of the U.S. SSE status.

    Requirements for Meat Establishments

    6. Any meat establishment in the United States that operates under USDA inspection is eligible to produce beef or beef products for Korea. The establishment should be notified to the Korean government in advance.

    7. The U.S. government will maintain a regular monitoring and aUditing program for meat establishments that produce beef or beef products for export to Korea to ensure they comply with the relevant provisions of these health requirements and U.S. regulations. In the event of a serious non-compliance, the Food Safely and Inspection Service (FSIS) personnel would issue a Noncompliance Record and would immediately control the non-compliant product If the process that resulted in the non-compliant product is on-going, FSIS would immediately stop the process until it determines tha t appropriate corrective and preventative measures have been taken. Only when FSIS determines that corrective actions are adequate will production be allowed to resume. The U.S. government will inform the Korean government if an establishment is suspended and when corrective action has been taken.

    8. The Korean government may conduct on-site aUdits of a representative sample of the meat establishments that export beef or beef products to Korea. When a serious non-compliance with these health requirements has been found as a result of the on-site audit, the Korean government will inform the results to the U.S. government, and the U.S. government shall take appropriate measures and inform the Korean government of the measures taken.

    9. The U.S. government shall verify that a suspended meat establishment has determined and implemented appropriate corrective and preventative measures before lifting the suspension described in item 7, item B or item 24. The U.S. government shall inform the Korean government of the corrective action the meat establishment has taken and of the date the meat establishmenfs suspension is lifted.

    Requirements for Beef and Beef Products

    10. The beef or beef products were derived from cattle born and raised in the United States, from cattle legally imported into the United States from a country deemed eligible by the Korean government to export beef or beef products to Korea, or from cattle raised in the United States for at least 100 days prior to slaughter.

    11. Cattle for producing beef or beef products for export were not suspect or confirmed BSE cases; confirmed progenies of BSE cases; or confirmed cohorts of BSE cases, as defined in the Terrestrial Animal Health Code adopted by the OlE.

    12. Meat establishments that produce beef or beef products shall maintain a program for the hygienic removal of SRMs.

    13. For the purpose of SRM removal, the age of cattle at the time of slaughter was verified by documentation which identifies the age or by dentition.

    14. The meat establishments maintain purchase records indicating the facility from which the animals were purchased for slaughter. Records may be disposed of two years after the date of purchase.

    15. The beef or beef products were derived from cattle that were slaughtered in meat establishments (slaughterhouses) certified by th e U.S. government as eligible to export beef and beef products to Korea and that passed ante-mortem and post-mortem inspection conducted by USDA inspection personnel under the supervision of the resident USDA veterinarian.

    16. The beef or beef products were derived from cattle that were not subjected to a stunning process, prior to slaughter, with a device injecting compressed air or gas into the cranial cavity, or to a pithing process.

    17. The beef or beef products were produced and handled in a manner as to prevent contamination from SRMs or from MSM from the skull and vertebral column of cattle 30 months of age and over, in accordance with FSIS regulations.

    18. Residues (radioactivity, synthetic antibiotic sUbstances, antibiotic substances, heavy metals, pesticides, hormones, etc.) posing a public health hazard and pathogenic microorganisms in the beef and beef products shall not exceed the tolerance levels established by the Korean government. The beef and beef products may be treated with ionizing radiation, ultraviolet rays, and tenderizers in accordance with Korean regUlations.

    19. Sanitary packaging material was used to package the beef or beef products.

    20. The processing, storage and transportation of the beef an d beef products were handled in such a manner as to prevent contamination by communicable animal disease pathogens.

    21. Refrigerated or cold storage rooms on a ship (aircraft) or container that transports the beef and beef products were sealed by using the seal of the U.S. government or a U.S. government-recognized seal and then certified by a U.S. government veterinarian.

    Export Certificate

    22. Beef and beef products qualify for import quarantine inspection if accompanied by the Export Certificate of Wholesomeness and the Certificate for Export of Beef and Beef Products to the Republic of Korea (ROK) issued by the veterinary authority of the U.S. government, which include the following information to be submitted to the quarantine authority of the Korean government:

    (1) Information responsive to items 2,10 and 15-20 above;

    (2) Name of the product (including species), number of packages and weight (net weight) listed by each final processing plant;

    (3) Names, addresses and establishment numbers of the slaughterhouse, meat processing plant and storage facility;

    (4) Slaughtering period and/or processing period (dd/mmJyy-dd/mm/yy);

    (5) Names and addresses of the consignor and the consignee;

    (6) Date the export certificate was issued and the name and signature of the issuer; and

    (7) Container number and seal number.

    Import Quarantine Inspection and Regulatory Action

    23. If the Korean government detects a food-safety hazard in a lot during the quarantine inspection process, it may reject the lot. The Korean government shall notify and consult with the U.S. government regarding the matter and may request corrective action if appropriate. If an SRM is found, FSIS will conduct an investigation to determine the cause of the problem. Product pro duced by the pertinent me at establishment shall continue to be eligible for import quarantine inspection. However, the Korean government will increase the rate of inspection of subsequent beef and beef products from the meat establishment. After the Korean government inspects five lots of equal or greater quantity of the same product wnhout finding a food-safety hazard, the Korean government shall apply its standard inspection procedures and rates.

    24. If the Korean government observes at least two incidents of food-safety hazards involving separate lots from the same meat establishment, the meat establishment may be suspended until corrective action has been taken. Beef and beef products of the meat establishment that were certified prior to the date of suspension shall continue to be eligible for import quarantine inspection. An establishment shall remain suspended until the U.S. government verifies to the Korean government that corrective actions have been completed. The U.S. government shall inform the Korean government of the meat establishment’s corrective action and of the date the meat establishmenfs suspension is lifted. The Korean government may include an on-site audit of the establishment during its next system audit in the United States.

    Consultations

    25. The Korean government or the U.S. government may request consultations with the other concerning any matter regarding the interpretation or application of these import health requirements. Unless otherwise agreed, the consultations shall be held within seven days of the request in the territory of the government that receives the request.

    Addendum

    1. This notice will go into effect on the date of its notification.

    2. When the United States publicly announces its enhanced feed ban, Article 1(1) shall be modified to read as follows: “beef or beef products” includes all edible parts of cattle and products derived from all edible parts of cattle as described in the U.S. Federal Meat Inspection Act. However, “beef or beef products” excludes specified risk materials (SRMs); all mechanically recovered meat (MRM) /mechanically separated meat (MSM); and advanced meat recovery product (AMR) from the skull and vertebral column of cattle 30 months of age and over at the time of slaughter. AMR that is free of SRMs and central nervous system tissues (CNS) is allowed. Ground meat, processed products and beef extracts may contain AMR but excludes specified risk materials (SRMs) and all MRM/MSM.

    3. During the first 90 days following the effective date of these import health requirements, Korea may audit and/or reject U.S. decisions regarding the listing of new plants or re-Iisting of previously de-listed plants.

    4. During the first 180 days following the effective date of these import health requirements, exports of T-bone and Porterhouse steaks will be accompanied by some notation on the box that confirms for Korean officials that these cuts of beef come from cattle under 30 months of age. The Korean government and the U.S. government agree to have consultations upon the completion of the 180 day period with a view to addressing concerns after reviewing the notation’s effect on beef trade and its inspection.

    Min Dong-Seck Deputy Minister MIFAFF On behalf of Korea

    A. Ellen Terpstra Deputy Under Secretary USDA On behalf of the United States

    THE PEOPLE of Korea _should_ be mad about the importing of USA beef into their Country. can you believe these regulations? even IF a BSE case(s) are documented in the USA, the people of Korea still cannot suspend the importing of U.S. beef, NO matter how many more mad cows the USA finds, until a thorough epidemiological investigation is finished. please remember, it took over a year and literally an act of congress to confirm the atypical mad cow in Texas before they finally finish that epidemiological investigation, and even after all that, the Koreans still cannot ban USA beef, until the OIE recognizes an adverse change in the classification of the U.S. BSE status. Considering the USDA and the OIE collaborated to seal the deal of the BSE MRR policy (the legal trading of all strains of TSE globally, just for commodities and futures sake, human health was not even considered), I doubt the OIE would ever change the BSE status for the USA, no matter how many more mad cows are found. It’s all about money folks.

    WE are talking years now, before the Koreans could ever suspend USA beef due to a BSE case(s) ever being documented in the USA, due to these stupid regulations. This is nothing more than FORCE FEEDING KOREA USDA MAD COW BEEF, i.e. all for a dollar, to hell with human health on a disease with an incubation period of years if not a decade or more.

    Please remember, the last two mad cows documented in the USA i.e. Alabama and Texas, both were of the ‘atypical’ BSE strain, and immediately after that, the USDA shut down the testing from 470,000 to 40,000 in the U.S. in 2007 out of about 35 million cattle slaughtered. also, science is showing that some of these atypical cases are more virulent to humans than the typical UK BSE strain ;

    I lost my mother to hvCJD (Heidenhain Variant CJD). I would like to comment on the CDC’s attempts to monitor the occurrence of emerging forms of CJD. Asante, Collinge et al [1] have reported that BSE transmission to the 129-methionine genotype can lead to an alternate phenotype that is indistinguishable from type 2 PrPSc, the commonest sporadic CJD. However, CJD and all human TSEs are not reportable nationally. CJD and all human TSEs must be made reportable in every state and internationally. I hope that the CDC does not continue to expect us to still believe that the 85%+ of all CJD cases which are sporadic are all spontaneous, without route/source. We have many TSEs in the USA in both animal and man. CWD in deer/elk is spreading rapidly and CWD does transmit to mink, ferret, cattle, and squirrel monkey by intracerebral inoculation. With the known incubation periods in other TSEs, oral transmission studies of CWD may take much longer. Every victim/family of CJD/TSEs should be asked about route and source of this agent. To prolong this will only spread the agent and needlessly expose others. In light of the findings of Asante and Collinge et al, there should be drastic measures to safeguard the medical and surgical arena from sporadic CJDs and all human TSEs. I only ponder how many sporadic CJDs in the USA are type 2 PrPSc?

38. Terry S. Singeltary Sr. June 8th, 2008 at 11:49 am 38

    Saturday, June 7, 2008

    Export Requirements for the Republic of Korea IMPORT HEALTH REQUIREMENTS FOR
    U.S. BEEF AND BEEF PRODUCTS

    http://usdavskorea.blogspot.com/2008/06/export-requirements-for-republic-of.html

    TSS

39. Jennifer June 8th, 2008 at 1:01 pm 39

    I’m afraid I don’t understand, Hochan. You say that the reason to not import beef from cows over 30 months old is for “people’s health”. Then you say that its potential harm, no matter what, is “another thing” and say it’s about the contract being “fair” to Koreans. And I don’t understand what you mean about honesty.
    American beef, including that over 30 months, has been internationally certified safe (unlike Korean beef). The deal will substantially lower food prices in Korea. I don’t understand how the deal is then either unsafe or unfair. Both principal and reality here seem to show that the beef deal was a good thing for Koreans.

40. Jennifer June 12th, 2008 at 10:32 am 40

    Terry,
    We thank you very much for the links, but as your comment appeared it was basically spam. I went through and edited your comment to include only those portions that seemed to be actual comments, or pertinent to the conversation and re-posted it. We will sort through the links and add some of them to our information section of the post. However, we ask that our commenters please to spend their time actually discussing issues, not merely posting links. If you have a resource that you think will be of use, then please include it with a short description of what it is and why you think it’s important. However, remember the purpose of the comment boards are so we can have conversations with each other, not deluge people. It doesn’t matter how useful the information is. Either you spent a heck of a lot of time composing that email, or you had something ready-made and are just spamming every site you find mentioning the issue. Frankly, I suspect the latter. For the record:
    pointing readers to a useful and important resource = cool
    cutting and pasting umpteen pages of articles and links = not cool

    Also, for safety reasons we ask our commenters to PLEASE not include their email, phone numbers, or regular addresses. If you have a specific reason for doing so, we ask you to send the information to us in a secure email, rather than posting it here. Thanks!

41. Min June 12th, 2008 at 3:25 pm 41

    What a discussion! it is such a bomb !

    As korean, we should blame our government because they hadn’t discussed this critical issue before they made an agreement with the U.S government.

    I believe the core point is that people are furious about Korean government’s stupidity and their no-preparation-attitude toward multi-national negotiations.

    If this issue had been handled and discussed in public before they made any deal, I don’t think this kind of hassel wouldn’t have happened!

    Such a shame!

42. Jennifer June 12th, 2008 at 4:46 pm 42

    But I don’t understand what Koreans mean when they say the government should have “discussed” this deal before enacting it. Can someone explain what that really means?

43. Kinsey June 13th, 2008 at 2:17 am 43

    I think what Min meant is that the Korean government did not make it widely known in advance that they were planning on allowing the importation of US beef. If they had, this would have given the Korean public a chance to weigh in and express their concerns. Then the government could have responded by either abandoning the idea or clearing up the misconceptions.

    (That’s my take on what Min was saying. Apologies to her if I got it wrong.)

44. Jennifer June 13th, 2008 at 3:09 pm 44

    Oh, pish! The beef deal was negotiated by the previous government, and beef imports had resumed and ceased a few times in the recent past. The people elected 2MB because he ran on a pro-business, pro-economic development platform. That he signed the beef deal should have surprised absolutely nobody. My gut feeling is that this “didn’t properly inform the people” line is just like the line about “not offering a sincere apology” that shows up in domestic and international disputes. There’s no way to measure somebody’s “sincerity” objectively - use of the phrase means more that the party in question doesn’t want to accept the apology, once it has been tendered. If I’m wrong though, I hope someone will explain it to me. What exactly were the Korean people’s expectations prior to the deal, and is it in line with what is expected of government actions in other areas?

45. Jim June 14th, 2008 at 12:13 pm 45

    The latest Paul Krugman editorial in the New York Times brings a different take to the arguement. One that I have been wondering about since before the protests, namely that the Bush administration’s “shrinking” of the regulatory agencies makes absolutely no sense in this time of trying to sell American products abroad. Here is the link.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/13/opinion/13krugman.html?_r=1&hp&oref=

46. Jennifer June 14th, 2008 at 1:39 pm 46

    Via the marmot’s hole, I found links to two readings of the legislation and court case involved in the BSE testing issue. Although it might seem at first blush to have been an attempt by the Bush administration and the cattle industry to collude to avoid testing . . . well, weirdly enough, it turns out to be a seemingly sound legal decision by the judge, and a logical one by the FDA. I must say, I’m really suprised by this. Read about it here, and here.

47. fun farm animal facts July 11th, 2008 at 2:09 pm 47

    fun farm animal facts…

    You must put a lot of work into blogging this much!…

48. ho young July 14th, 2008 at 8:52 am 48

    Interesting voice from American in Korea…!!
    I like that.

    I just flowed from searching result that engages my personal research interest to here. (Comparative study of internet between US and Korea ).

    Now I’m hearing around your opinion around 11min something ( still 20min around left .. haha .. oops.. south park part.. haha .. you guys really prepare a lot of things to make this podcast.. I admire you ).

    I just want to add one thing as Korean who study in America. I do not intend to make such as counter-argument to you guys because I think there is no ‘exact’ answer.

    I think the main thing about Mad Cow during last 2 months is related with “sovereignity of nation”. Not a something about anti-America. Well, it happens to be America, all the time .. haha.. but, you’re right in terms of credibility of ‘this’ government.

    please keep doing this great job up ..!!!
    ( And I think there is also good ‘business’ opportunity)

    Thanks for podcasting..!

49. SSG John Lapp July 28th, 2008 at 1:16 pm 49

    Maybe because I am American but I to do not understand the rage over this import of American beef. I would understand if we had continuous mad cow break outs in the US. While being stationed in both Pusan and Camp Casey I was requested on many occasions to go to the commissary and buy American meet for local Koreans.

    What Koreans should be worried about is the food being sold by vendors on the street. That food is outside in the heat all day with flies buzzing around it. I’m not bashing Koreans. I have a lot of admiration and love for Koreans. I just believe that there is the building urgency in Korea to protest anything American.